Relocate ISS to ME-L1

Relocating ISS to the moon is much easier said than done, especially when such topics are being summarily banished instead of allowing folks to contribute.

I'd like this topic to provide arguments on behalf of many pro/con issues that relate to relocating ISS to the moon, even though discussing this effort would take thousands of words that so far few have cared enough as even to read without focusing their intent as to bash and/or banish absolutely everything I have to share, as folks have seem intent upon sharing in whatever's the absolute worst possible negative aspects of this topic (I wonder why that is?).

Instead of our watching ISS reenter, we should focus this topic upon our best efforts of pursuing the positive aspects of robotically exporting ISS towards the moon, of how best to situate this tonnage within such a nifty nullification zone without losing half of ISS in the process. Such as, how many extra roles of aluminum foil, ductape and application is it going to take for just securely packaging all the critical/privet parts of ISS in such a manner as per surviving the Van Allen zone of death, as this phase alone could impose the first of many seemingly insurmountable topics that'll need to be surmounted.

I so happen to believe the ultimate salvation of ISS is within the realm of relocation into the mutual gravity-well or sweet-spot of ME-L1, has having been technically doable, as per safely coasting along within our tidal and gravity-well and thereby benefiting by what such a nullification-zone has to offer. Of getting this much tonnage there will be spendy and somewhat testy. Of station-keeping ISS within this relatively nearby (ME-L1 +/- 1,700 km) gateway may become a bit complex at first, though I believe ISS and of it's onboard computers, plus everything that's remotely doable from the standpoint of control stations here on Earth has been adaptable for accomplishing exactly this sort of task.

Most certainly this much tonnage is going to require a rather substantial amount of applied thrust, as for gradually accelerating ISS into safely exiting the gravity influence of mother Earth, at least to the point of coasting slowly into the ME-L1 zone (preferably down to less than a few meters/s) so that breaking thrust isn't going to cause catastrophic structural failures. Once nullification orbit is established, this is when various ION thrusters should accommodate the long-term needs of station-keeping, with perhaps a significant retro-boost thrust prior to the end of each orbit eccentricity cycle.

Regards, Brad GUTH / GASA~IEIS

BradGuth – Thu, 2004 – 12 – 30 20:02

Having ISS situated at the ME-L1 represents that whatever two-way radio/microwave communications and of whatever data streams/packets can become 100% amateur managed, as ISS travels itself along in total alignment with the moon that simply isn't zooming around Earth nearly as fast (well under 1 km/s at an average distance of perhaps 323,000 km) should only improve upon sustaining the up/down link. With ISS being consistently situated between the moon and Earth at roughly 323,000 km away from Earth is slightly more than a one second delay (2.15 seconds per round trip). Even optical laser communication becomes worth doing, as in using quantum photon binary format becomes technically good for at least 1e12 bps (such quantum binary performance is not there yet, but it's only a matter of time).

Only the lunar secondary radiation of those hard-X-Rays is suggesting a slight radio interference problem, that plus getting signals to/from as having that rather nasty Van Allen zone of death in between, although of whatever's optical/photon represents the MUF factor has essentially become a non-factor, especially if there's more than one station transceiving upon managing such a nifty signal path.

I truly believe a team of Russians, members of ESA and even the Chinese are fully capable of accomplishing this task within acceptable safety and cost limitations. The scientific rewards are certainly many that I can think of across the board on various lunar, Earth and of interplanetary benefits. Although, until more shielding is applied to our existing ISS, there should be somewhat greater risk for the crew, as well as their to/from commute of a few hours becomes days, but other than that there's only loads of absolute positives for robotics and eventually humanity and thereby of terrific Earth science that many can take directly to the bank.

Silly me, here I was merely thinking that perhaps instead of folks continually sitting around and pretending there's absolutely nothing productive that can truly save ISS from reentering and thus burning up (I believe we've been informed that at times they're essentially out of primary rocket fuel, and that our shuttle will not likely arrive in time for the essential reboost ISS to 400+km, and that much below 300 km is almost toast because there's simply too much atmospheric drag for the onboard reboost thrusters currently available that can manage once the absolute minimum recovery altitude (point of no return) reaches 280 km.

Regards, Brad GUTH / GASA~IEIS and

Submitted by BradGuth on Thu, 2004-12-30 20:32.

ISS relocation questions ???

QUESTIONS (updated) on behalf of relocating ISS to the moon;

1) what is the actual ME-L1 point, in terms of the average distance away from the moon or from Earth?

2) what's the variation of the ME-L1 point, as the moon interacts with the gravity of Earth and the sun?

3) how much sustained reboost will it take as for ISS exiting the gravity influence of Earth, coasting itself into the ME-L1 (gravity-well) zone at not much over 1 m/s?

4) how much station-keeping energy will it require once ISS has parallel parked itself within this future LSE gateway or null-zone of ME-L1?

5) What's the level of lunar reflected secondary hard-X-Ray dosage going to be like?

6) What are typical cosmic background and direct solar radiation levels at ME-L1?

7) How much of a physical impact from something encountered at 30+km/s can ISS currently withstand?

8) Of continuing robotic re-supply deliveries of beer, pizza and fuel to ISS is needed how often?

9) if necessary, how automated and thereby unmanned/robotic can ISS become?

10) will a nuclear power generator or might a tether dipole element generate sufficient alternatives for station keeping?

I'll eventually include your questions, edit as per adding to this list of my questions. I suppose I'll eventuall accomplish everything, that is if others still can't be bothered as to manage thinking of anything better to offer, propose or simply argue about.

Basically the ISS would become orbiting Earth at roughly 322,400 km, thereby making 854 meters/sec about Earth, thus always in lunar alignment, although +/-2.75% linear and certainly of something +/- angular since absolute perfect alignment isn't going to transpire until the "Javelin Probe" is deployed as affording the ISS tether anchor, which in turn is essentially obtaining the initial LSE functionality and obviously giving something for ISS to pull against (within basalt/silica composite tether GPa).

I believe the tidal forces would benefit whatever is within this nullification zone, simply because such slight amounts of planet/moon gravity exist, and certainly the leas population of atoms creating friction, thereby it's possible that a great deal of station-keeping energy could be derived from tidal forces, or I could be entirely dead wrong (wouldn't be the first time, nor the last mistake I'll make).

Javelin Probes:

Regards, Brad GUTH / GASA~IEIS

Submitted by BradGuth on Thu, 2004-12-30 20:43.


Anything of religion or politics is out the window; Of relocating ISS to such a nifty station-keeping position (mutual Earth/moon gravity-well or perhaps best ever interplanetary gateway) was never intended as yet another argument as to politically or religiously why this task shouldn't or can't possibly be accomplished, as that's strictly the priority-1 and cold-war prime directive and for-profit motivation of most every other soul that's partaking in the ongoing sting, of those thousand points of light being their steadfast pro-NASA/Apollo or bust ruse of the century.

This topic offers an honest application upon our using the known laws of physics, as backed quite nicely by well proven and thereby easily verified sources covering nearly all of the necessary expertise, of such efforts subsequently accomplishing the immediate pay-back as for the benefits of mother Earth, of our pillaging the moon itself, of otherwise accomplishing efficient interplanetary communications and of eventually benefiting actual interplanetary expeditions, as well as for accomplishing all sorts of viable space sciences.

With direct benefits to most of humanity, that is if you'd dare to exprapolate upon such terrific benefits of extracting and subsequently redistributing various energy aspects of He3, and even on behalf of hosting star-wars capability isn't exactly a half bad notion. Identifying and hopefully defending mother Earth from NEOs is simply another win-win obtainable task that becomes doable once the tether dipole element and those massive counter-rotating flywheels beging storing sufficient energy.

Instead of having to start the LSE-CM/ISS entirely starting from scratch, this topic is about our utilizing and/or making due with what we've actually got to work with, in a rather timely and affordable option as to otherwise continuing down the spendy and polluting mainstream path after those thousand points of light that simply don't exist (especially if you're Muslim), unless it's simply more of those reflections derived off the rather horrific waterfall of a bloated mainstream that has been misinterpreted as affording those points of light. As other than what's existing within the perverted mind-set of certain mad warlords and of their usual suck-ups as to whatever our administrations had to offer that bought far too much of humanity into this extremely intellectual dead zone, exactly as in the case of our taking the status quo hook, line and sinker over those WMD that never existed.

In spite of the orchestrated flak and mainstreamism that's ongoing, I still believe that a few (perhaps damn few) individuals can honestly share and share alike on behalf of methods accomplishing this doable task of relocating ISS to the moon. I'll also have to expect that most other folks will remain content as the traditional collective that's obstructing at absolutely anything I'm suggesting. I know darn well that the talents, software and essentially all the resources have been out there, as mostly bought and paid for many times over by the public/taxpayer, that wwhich e've all been paying dearly for the last 4 decades worth of perpetrated cold-wars, of the sorts of supposedly smart folks that should have been on top of this nearby and easily obtainable quest as of years ago, not to mention of what Venus was having to offer as of the last decade, and of all things important has always been the Sirius star system that's gotten the cold-war sholder ever since the Dogon tribe informed us of what's what.

Too bad the Dogon tribe didn't tell us about 9/11 or of all those WMD, as then we wouldn't have paid any attention whatsoever.

Of course, before pushing ISS towards the moon, or of our doing much of a nything about the likes of Venus, much less Sirius, first we'll have to seriously boot the likes of mainstream religions and their ongoing incest of politics entirely out of the picture, performing an extensive anti-voodoo chant or exercisism upon the entire issue of those bogus moon landings (AI/robotic as well as manned), as to those issues being flushed once and for all down another one of our horrifically spendy cold-war space-toilets, as only then might honest folks get back into the business of making such good things and so much more happen.

Regards, Brad GUTH / GASA~IEIS

Submitted by BradGuth on Sat, 2005-01-01 11:24.


your topics are honest but this is a forum, not a place to post such long articles.
Please keep posting your interesting articles on your site and not on this one. You are free to comment or advertize them here... not to post them all.

Your long articles post will be deleted with no further notice. I am sure you will understand.

Thank you

Iss Fan Club Founder and Moderator

Submitted by iz6byy on Sat, 2005-01-01 13:46.

Sorry about all them pesky words. Perhaps I should have used the "submissions" as news or white-papers on behalf of the topic(s) upon relocating ISS. Otherwise I'll certainly take your advice and post short links to specific pages that I'll externally manage on my site.

I mistakenly thought this ISS forum (especially within the "General ISS forum") was all about sharing viable ideas and thereby obtaining feedback of other expertise, obtaining contributions and thus learning of what's possible.

I don't suppose there's actually anyone available that can answer a few tough questions, or contribute something/anything along similar lines of relocating ISS to the moon?

BTW; my summary update page is absolutely chuck full of lots more than what's ISS or even moon and LSE-CM/ISS related:

One such page link is:

In the mean time, I'll even edit those previous postings down to a dull roar.

Regards, Brad GUTH / GASA~IEIS

Submitted by BradGuth on Fri, 2005-01-07 21:22.

Patial answer to question 8

Of continuing robotic re-supply deliveries of essential beer, pizza and fuel to ISS is needed how often?

I'm not exactly certain why there was a smiley face associated with my question 8. Perhaps it had something due to the 10 fold increased delivery energy and extend timeline of getting whatever to ISS without that effort taking a week or more is most likely.

Actually, once the ISS becomes tether-anchored into the moon, and a suitable dipole element having been deployed towards Earth that's reaching to within 50,000 km (much closer if you'd dare), as such a train of robotic tether crawler-pods could become utilized for essentially accommodating a continual resupply of said beer and pizza. Actually a high pressure tube could be lowered to where a solar and/or tether powered compressor could extract atoms away from the upper atmosphere of Earth, delivering that as a compressed substance that's essentially flowing in a conduit as incorporated within the dipole tether element.

Of returning whatever to Earth certainly isn't a problem, or even of getting whatever to/from the lunar surface becomes another tether related function, thus eliminating the rather conspicuously spendy, damn risky and as of today unproven fly-by-rocket methods, that even if such fly-by-rockets worked fine and dandy, as such they would remain as extremely energy inefficient.

Regards, Brad GUTH / GASA~IEIS

Submitted by BradGuth on Sat, 2005-01-08 17:50.

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