Can someone please ask the ISS to turn on the repeater mode? :-)
Nobody asked me. but...
I know we don't have any say about what mode the ISS places the radios in, but it sure would be nice if they would switch over to repeater so us earth-bound hams could have some QSOs with each other as long as the astronauts aren't using the equipment to talk to us on earth. I haven't heard anything on 145.800 for a couple of weeks now in southern NJ.
Please?
Mike
KC2QIL
mwrobison – Mon, 2009 – 04 – 13 19:06
ISS x-band repeater not working over Eden, SE NSW Australia
We have had line of site with the ISS, at 50 deg elevation yet unable to work on 145.800 downlink, 437.800 uplink. Usually this local on top of Hill very, very reliable.
are there other modes/times I am not aware of?
ISS radios
I can't understand the whole 50 step process to turn the radio on as it has been recently used it must be configured pretty close to where it should work by simply hitting the "ON" knob.... if it's set for the 145.8 down and 144.99 up or whatever combination my guess
is, having owned Kenwood that it will remember and thus start right up where it left off... was last used. Is this wrong?
Configuration
Just leaving the radio "ON" after a voice contact will yield the exact results we have now (nothing on the downlink and nobody to respond to the uplink) since the radio would be configured for voice operations and no crew would be at the radio. Since each operation (voice, packet, crossband repeater or SSTV) requires a different configuration the radio must be changed to support the desired operation.
I stated the crossband operation configuration takes 27 steps and the packet operation takes 5 but to a person not familiar with the radio, even the simple change from voice to packet can become bungled if not executed properly (as recently demonstrated by the radio being in packet on the wrong frequency). Sure it is simple for someone who knows what to do or how to make changes to a radio they are familiar with but for crew members that are not very interested in amateur radio operations this is not simple.
Kenneth - N5VHO
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/reference/radio/
Support ARISS http://www.amsat-na.com/store/donation.php (select "Human Spaceflight (ARISS))
Complicated procedures....
Let me see if I have this right....
We have a space station orbiting the Earth with supposedly highly intelligent and educated people on board that are presumably
performing complicated tasks in support of this multi-billion dollar space lab and you're telling me that they can't figure out (with written
instructions) how to place an amateur, two-way radio in a usable mode? Do they also have trouble figuring out how to flush the toilet
in outer space? No wonder they are too cranky to turn on a radio!
Pretty scary.......
Missed the mark
No, you don't have it right.
Not all the highly intelligent and educated people want to spend their free time performing a complicated task or even a simple one that does not interest them. Amateur radio is a hobby even on the ISS and crews give of their free time to do what ever level of involvement they desire.
Kenneth - N5VHO
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/reference/radio/
Support ARISS http://www.amsat-na.com/store/donation.php (select "Human Spaceflight (ARISS))
Interested....
I'm sure glad they were "interested" in keeping it in orbit! God help us if they ever decide to get "uninterested"!
As someone else iterated in another comment; In today's search for funding cuts it might behoove them to be a
bit more "interested" in things other than what each might be "interested" in.....
Fun
It seems that the number of crew members interested in ham radio is roughly the same percentage as the number of people interested in ham radio in the USA. Not everyone is as interested in the hobby as you. The ones that are interested do a great job spending time on the amateur radio and keeping it active on ISS. The others don't.
Keeping the station in orbit is done for monetary reasons. Operating ham radio is just for fun.
Kenneth - N5VHO
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/reference/radio/
Support ARISS http://www.amsat-na.com/store/donation.php (select "Human Spaceflight (ARISS))
Absurdities
Frankly I'm baffled as to why the equipment is even onboard. Based on your statement that they really aren't
interested in the "hobby" then it would appear to me they are only participating in the school kids program
because they apparently have been ordered to, which leads me to believe that all they are doing is one big
dog and pony show....
I'm with Alex, I don't understand what is so time consuming or complicated about placing the radio back in
its prior mode once they have completed their exercise with the kids. Your explanation of the 27 steps it would
take to place the radio back in the crossband configuration is just plain absurd. We're not talking about a
mission critical piece of equipment here. Instead of picking their noses when they're done, use that time to
switch the radio back to crossband operation.
If my tax money (and yours too) is going to fund these radios how about we add a couple of dollars and make
it remotely controlled. Just think of all the time we could save those poor, overworked people on board. I'm
sure we could find somebody Earth side to handle the radio's configuration....perhaps the gardener. I'm sure
he could find time to do it!
You should have been their PR man, Kenneth.
Re: Mr. M
Mr. M (with no name).
Be happy ARISS and NASA involve childeren in the space program
via ham radio, I am sure a lot kids became intrested in ham radio and
maybe in the future some will choose to do space related work building
satellites wich can safe million lifes in the future!!!
Be happy (in all those years) with the ham radio -
activities (that where a lot) that the crew did for us hams on
the ground!
Read the 23 April comments from N5VHO.
http://www.issfanclub.com/node/8689#comment-13382
For now you can also enjoy the amateur satellites:
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php
73's Cor PD0RKC
PR
It just so happens, I am a PR person for them. I would suggest you send your donations to have the Kenwood D700 modified for remote control to the link below my signature. That would solve a lot of problems.
Kenneth - N5VHO
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/reference/radio/
Support ARISS http://www.amsat-na.com/store/donation.php (select "Human Spaceflight (ARISS))
Mr M
Mr M if your are going to do personal attack's please have the guts to use your name or call sign.
Be happy to have them turn on the radio's when they do. John W0JPH
Donations
Kenneth....
Please don't hold your breath. Asphyxiation is a horrible way to go....
No money, no change
Can make hardware changes with out monitary support. You too are holding yours.
Kenneth - N5VHO
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/reference/radio/
Support ARISS http://www.amsat-na.com/store/donation.php (select "Human Spaceflight (ARISS))
12 year olds
Sorry, Kenneth, I'm not too interested in donating coins so that a bunch of 12 year olds or your mother (your words) orbiting in outer space have the proper schooling and instructions to operate a radio. Every time I read your statement about the personnel manning the ISS it scares the bejesus out of me. To think that we are sending people up in space that have to be trained at the level of a 12 year old (or your mother) is frightening.
If we are providing instructions to the crew of the ISS that are designed for 12 year olds (or your mother) it certainly doesn't say much for today's college, educational standards now does it?
I think we should think more about automating things up there. It's getting
way too complicated for 12 year olds.....or your mother! Hey, I'll bet your mother could put that radio in cross band mode! Bless her heart.
Kenneth said:
"Most procedures are written so anyone can perform them. Can you write a procedure so that a 12 year old or your mother (who is not a ham) can configure a Kenwood D700 into crossband repeater? That is basiclly what the one we use does."
Taking it too literal
Could it be that Kenneth's words are not literally meant? And if so, thus do not imply that the ISS astronauts have the level of education/understanding of a 12 year old, but imply that an instruction manual has been made for the radio on the ISS that is unambiguous and easy to understand. So that everyone - say a 12 year old or your mother - can understand it. And if a 12 year old can understand it, then trivially the astronauts can understand it. And thus it has to be a very good manual.... worth spending a few dimes on...
What's the point of having a call?
It is clear, some people get a ham radio license simply to tack on a trophy wall and unless a radio is the last way to communicate for the
last person on earth will never turn it on. ARISS has done alot for amateur radio visibility, much to encourage new operators visa vi the
school contacts and helps to keep the ISS in the public spotlite, which helps keep funding operations popular with tax payers. All good.
ARISS has been a semi-failure as far as many hams are concerned for I think a simple reason: the amateur radio station on board is so
seldom on the air. We did get spoiled recently thanks to Expedition 18 (Mike F. mostly), but I feel not keeping the radio station operating
is like a DXpedition that doesn't operate much after huge fanfair/build up... gets everyone worked up all for nothing. All information on the web and elsewhere, harping on and on about ARISS and the packet station, repeater etc and a new operator on the ground finds there's nothing happening on the last passes he/she tried to monitor they may get the idea that whole thing is bunk and never try again.
Surely that isn't a good thing. Dave, de kb9ktd.
That's the point of having a call..
Dave,
having a call, and using it as a means to make contacts with other people on HAM radio bands in order to build one's own personality and develop social skills... is the main objective of our mutual hobby: HAM radio.
Even a periodical lack of contacts via the ISS can be used as a means to develop ones own good social qualities like for instance "patience". And the lack of activity can also be applied as a means to not get spoiled when there is more activity, and in doing so becomes the cause for being able to fully appreciate a contact when it is made.
Our hobby, and the point of having a call is thus quite simple and straightforward ;-)
73's de Marc, PD4U
I imagine it would take just
I imagine it would take just a couple of minutes at most to return the radio to repeater mode after a school contact. After all they already are sitting in front of the thing. They can spend the rest of their free time sucking their thumbs or whatever they find more interesting.
As for all the steps involved I must be missing something. From my brief read of the Kenwood manual it seems just a matter of setting the 2 frequencies and selecting the crossband repeat mode in one of the menus but clearly I am not reading it right.
cheers, Alex
Re: I imagine it would take just
Hello Alex and all others,
Please read (again) above the comments from N5VHO (from 23 April).
http://www.issfanclub.com/node/8689#comment-13382
These comments are very importand, also can you imagen what would
happen if a non "ham" intrested crew make mistakes (we all are humans).
A miss configured radio can delay future activities a long time!!! (that happend in the past!).
Be happy with all the ham activities crew 18 and 19 have done and
have patients.
73's Cor PD0RKC
"interesting" behaviour
The interesting thing about human beings is that when you give them all what they want they get bored. And when you give them only every now and then what they want they get exited and stay focussed.
Just see the exiting language in this thread. History repeating itself in the present, and thus probably in the future.
73's de Marc, PD4U
"Interesting" Behavior
Marc has raised a good point. I know that I am still anxiously awaiting trying first listen for and then try two way comm's to / from the ISS. I commented in another thread that maybe it was due to some infighting over ISS resources. Reading the threads on the site has led me to believe in Ken's take on the level of interest of the crew.
From my perspective, the quiet has given me more time to learn and prepare. When I feel that my equipment is in order, I will try one of the other birds.
Looks like AO-51 is back in FM V/U mode:
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/echo/CTNews.php
No waning of interest here...
73's
Frank, KC8YEY
Persistence, Interesting Behavior or...
Finally made the board at ariss.net. As far as I know, my stations first time aprs via ariss.
One of the coolest aspects of the hobby, you can usually pick up where you left off...
The best part, there are always others sharing the enthusiasm and spirit...
Thanks K8YSE, WB8NUT et al ALL for a memorable pass!
73's Frank
appreciate the duality of things
If there would be no faul weather, the words and the experience of "beautifull weather" would become meaningless. So if you look closer at things, they often turn out to be dependent on the opposite of what one at first would believe
So complaints about the lack of activity are actually dependent for their meaning on the times we enjoyed much HAM radio activity from the ISS. And when people did not really/fully appreciate the fact that there was activity from the ISS, they often get spoiled... which results in complaints.
i.e. the snake biting it's own tail. Or as we say in Holland: Those who complain are not in need.
Im agree!!! Switching
Im agree!!! Switching ON!
Please!, 73
Kirk
NP3FY
Ditto I know it takes time
Ditto
I know it takes time to adjust, when a new crew gets up there, but as you said, a couple of weeks since the changeover, and down under especially, as dx elsewhere is terrible, ISS is being missed terribly, especially in cross repeater mode.
PLEASE guys, hit the big "ON" switch for us, and put us out of our misery ?
Paul
VK7BBW
Repeater Mode
I concur.
New crew, same old problem
This seems to happen every time we have a crew change. It takes them about a month before they realize the radio is there and should be left on.
Asking it to be put in repeater mode is a nice idea but it probably won't happen. It seems that mode only comes on when there is crew member who is VERY interested in amateur radio. The times that the repeater mode has been activated regularly was during Exp 9, 12 and 18. The rest of the time it is either in packet mode or off.
Kenneth - N5VHO
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/reference/radio/
Support ARISS http://www.amsat-na.com/store/donation.php (select "Human Spaceflight (ARISS))
ISS rereater/packet ops- follow-up question
Ken,
Since I know that ground control is in constant communication with the ISS, why is it too much to ask that they just tell one of the astronauts, " Right after breakfast today, turn the ham radio to the (repeater) (packet) position and leave it on"?
I just don't understand why this is so hard, especially since my tax dollars provide some support to the ISS. It would seem that this is a 2 minute effort, or don't I have all the facts? Is there more to this than I realize?
Not trying to stir up trouble, I just want to understand...
Thanks...
Mike
KC2QIL Southern NJ
Priorities
As I said, it depends on the crew member. If they are not interested in amateur radio, calling up to them (assuming you could convince the CAPCOM it was a necessary call) won't do any good. If they are interested, they would have already had it up an running.
Also, the setup to activate the crossband repeater is a 6 page 27 step procedure. Not something crews that have no interest are willing to go find, read and execute.
I suspect your tax dollars probably don't apply to the Russian segment where the radio is located.
Kenneth - N5VHO
Why So Complicated?
Kenneth's revelation that it requires a six-page, 27-step procedure to activate the cross band repeater is both interesting
and disturbing. It raises the obvous question: Why is the process so complicated?
Surely, with all that "ham" knowledge, ingenuity and design fire-power out there, it must be possible to design a system
that does not require such complexity and so many steps.
We put men on the Moon more than 40 years ago. Now in 2009, why can't someone devise a system that will switch
on the cross band repeater that does not require six pages and 27 steps to execute?
Can anyone rise to the challenge?
Rgds es 73
de Jim, G4CGO
D700
Someone can devise a system that will switch on the crossband repeater. It is called building a satellite rated for human space flight from scratch. That way it has a button or could be telecommanded for crossband operations. Cost is the reason that solution was not implemented. Much cheaper to buy off the shelf.
Unfortunately the Kenwood D700 is not a simple radio to operate for crossband operations. Having someone completely unfamiliar with the radio makes it even more difficult to "tell" them the exact steps to perform a task. One must cover EVERY step to make sure no mistakes are made. Placing the radio into packet mode is a simple task (Just 5 steps) but if you look a the manual, you will see that several menus must be navigated and configured to activate the crossband capability of the radio. That is the reason for the 27 steps. The 6 pages is due to inclusion of images to permit the crew to compare with the display as checks while going through the procedure.
Most procedures are written so anyone can perform them. Can you write a procedure so that a 12 year old or your mother (who is not a ham) can configure a Kenwood D700 into crossband repeater? That is basiclly what the one we use does.
Kenneth - N5VHO
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/reference/radio/
Support ARISS http://www.amsat-na.com/store/donation.php (select "Human Spaceflight (ARISS))
Priorities
Thanks, Ken.
Now I understand better. I appreciate you providing the additional details. I had no idea it was so complex to set the repeater up. I figured it was as simple as flipping a switch. I also didn't know that it was in the Russian section. Is there job segregation, based on what section equipment is in? Isn't it all one big ISS from a task assignment/accomplishment perspective? [I realize specific crew are trained to do specific tasks, but I figure setting the repeater up isn't considered one of those specialized tasks...but, with 27 steps, you never know! :-) ]
Mike
KC2QIL Southern NJ
Priorites
I agree,
lets just remember the amateur code
CONSIDERATE . . . never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.
LOYAL . . . he offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.
PROGRESSIVE . . . with knowledge abreast of science, well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.
FRIENDLY . . . slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner, kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.
BALANCED . . . Radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to his family, job, school or community.
PATRIOTIC . . . station and skill always ready for the service to country and community.
73 Tom ab1gf
i believe they are talking
i believe they are talking to a school tomorrow in ashland, ohio so if were lucky maybe they will keep the repeater on for a little while. but they are inviting people to listen. i seen the article on this site so lets hope it stays up for a little bit.
take care
kd8fve chris
ISS
Two passes and no traffic heard. 0712 cdt and 0848 cdt ( Minnesota )
Anyone hearing anything? John
Thank You Mike Fincke
Hats off to Astronaut Mike Fincke (KE5AIT) Mike always had the radio set up mostly in Cross Band Repeater mode. We all got spoiled having an Astronaut who enjoys communicating with Ham Operators on Planet Earth and knows the excitement that we feel when we either make direct contact or am able to make QSOs using the Repeater or Packet. I don't have packet but for the ones that do I know that they feel the same way any contact. The excitement of watching the ISS on your Sat Tracker as it gets closer to your location. Anyway enough said Thank You Mike Fincke Hurry Back Up There!!!